We are delighted to welcome Nansubuga Isdahl and Nicole Miles, author and illustrator of First Names: Nelson Mandela published by David Fickling Books to the blog to talk about the book, Nelson Mandela and their work and research!

1) Please can you introduce yourselves and tell us a little about your background and interests in children’s books?

Nansubuga Isdahl, author: Thanks! I’m Nansu. In short, I was born in the US and am of Ugandan heritage. My family and I currently live in Tanzania, but I’m typing this from Florida (US), where we’ve been taking cover for the past year. I write for international NGOs and UN agencies during the day, and I work on children’s books by night. I’ve always loved books, but became particularly interested in children’s books when I had my daughter and realized that the range of voices telling stories was severely limited and the industry was skewed towards certain perspectives.

Nicole Miles, illustrator: My name is Nicole and I’m from The Bahamas. I came to the UK for university and lived here since then. I find it difficult to explain my interest in children’s books because it’s so hard to imagine why anyone wouldn’t love children’s books! Haha I actually find the category to just be really engaging and accessible and there is a sincerity in kids’ books that can often get replaced by a cooler cynicism in books for older readers and, although that’s sometimes what I’m in the mood for, that sincerity in books for younger readers is just really lovely to me.

(2) How did the commission come about?

NI: My agent brought it to me after DFB had seen a travel series manuscript of mine. I had a call with the editor and they introduced the series. Serendipitously, I had been living in South Africa for years and the opportunity to write about Nelson Mandela fit perfectly with my interests.

NM:This story is maybe not so exciting, but David Fickling Books contacted me and asked if I would be interested in working with them on the series and I was available and interested.

(3) What kind of research was involved in planning the book?

NI: On my end, I read widely. This included Nelson Mandela’s autobiography, The Long Walk to Freedom, and other texts. I also did extensive on-line research, watched many movies, listened to the freedom songs from that time period, etc. I had already visited the Apartheid Museum in Johannesburg, so felt I had a grasp of that. Also, simply by living in Johannesburg, I was afforded a considerable amount of perspective about Nelson Mandela because his legacy is reflected throughout the city.

NM: On my part, there was a lot of visual research and, because photos of Black South Africans and their living and working spaces and so on at that time are likely very rare, there was a fair bit of sleuthing involved too. For anyone mentioned in the book I obviously would have to look up as many photos of them as I could find to draw them, but if Nelson is ever driving a car, for example, and the make and model are not named, I was looking up which cars of the time were popular and accessible, whether he would have had the newest model or a car that had been in circulation for a few years, which side of the road they drive on in South Africa and which side is the steering wheel on, and so on. I looked up police uniforms versus other official authorities’ uniforms and the political parties’ flags but made sure I got the emblems from the right era, and what kinds of casual clothing Nelson would have worn at university when he wasn’t in traditional dress or a suit. Basically a lot of time was spent searching online historical photo archives!

(4) What did you learn about Nelson Mandela that you didn’t previously know?

NI: I didn’t know that he had such a tremendous sense of humour. He was very charming, it seems, and I think his sense of humour was part of that charm.

NM:Maybe I should be embarrassed to admit it but, prior to reading Nansu’s manuscript, for me it was as though Nelson Mandela’s life started in middle age when he was sent to Robben Island in 1964, then there was another big gap in my knowledge spanning 27 years, after which he simply existed as a hero because of some vague ideas about fighting apartheid here and there. I respected him before coming to this book and understood that he was an important person, but it is truly an understatement to say I learned a lot working on this project.

5. How important do you feel biographies are for children and young people, and what can we learn from them?
   
   NI: I think biographies, especially those about people who are lesser known or who live in different parts of the world, are particularly important. Historical texts, including biographies, shape how we view the past and the present. I think biographies can help expand young people’s worldview and hopefully allow them to realize that not everything we’re taught reflects the totality of an experience or event. Rather, what we're taught often reflects an interpretation or one side of a story. I think it’s very important for children to learn that distinction early and to gain those critical analysis skills. Biographies are a great way to do this. Biographies can also put a personal face to historical events, which I think makes them far more engaging for children. Learning about apartheid in history class is one thing. Learning about it from Nelson’s life, and the impact it had on him and the people around him, adds a richness that is invaluable. It also helps children to develop empathy – another critically important life skill.
    

   NM:I am not someone who is disinterested in history or global civil rights movements and yet here was a huge oversight on my part about a man who made big waves globally and was the face of a massive movement. I imagine many people, especially anyone (like me) who was too young to have been aware of the events surrounding Mandela as “current affairs” as it was all unfolding, are similarly ignorant (or even less aware) than I was about him (and others in the movement who are also mentioned in the book). That ignorance is an important thing to correct because, as the saying goes “those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it” and a past with so much avoidable cruelty and discrimination and pain for so many people would be a horrible thing to senselessly repeat. Biographies for young people are not simply a warning though. Historical biographies can serve as a source of inspiration to children to see that, even with so much against you, it is possible to overcome and that is not just pretty words; it happens. People do great things and overcome great difficulty. I think that’s important.

    

   
   (6) It feels as though schooling was a very important point in Nelson Mandela’s life, how formative do you think being educated in a British-style school was for him and what changes did he have to make because of this?
   
   NI: I think Nelson’s formal education helped to widen his perspective about the world. It also gave him access to jobs (i.e., being a lawyer) that would have been unlikely otherwise. I think given that he was a country boy, as he put it, he certainly had to acclimate to a more formal environment during his schooling. He also learned through his formal education that what was being taught in school differed greatly from what he was learning at home (e.g., about South African history). That tension was formative in helping develop his views about equality and justice.  So, Nelson essentially gained the skill of living in two worlds--the Western one through his schooling and the South African one. His ability to “cross over” worlds, if you will, was critically important in building bridges when he came President.

    

   NM: This is a fantastic and complex question. My understanding is that, while it benefitted him and made certain opportunities available to him that may not have been otherwise, the colonial school system also took from him his culture, his history and even his name — one could fairly say much of his sense of identity… There’s a part in the book where this confusion is expressed as he compares what he is learning in formal lessons with what he is learning from elders in his village. It’s interesting because, as someone who grew up and was educated in an ex-British colony (The Bahamas), I found this particularly interesting. It speaks a lot to colonisation and whether the benefits outweigh the many damages and how those subjected to the system can use it to their advantage (and, I would hope, to help those who didn’t benefit from it as Nelson did). When talking about the ills of colonisation, there is often a knee-jerk reaction from descendants of colonisers (and the pro-establishment colonised) that the meagre benefits (roads, education, etc.) were worth it in exchange for subjugation and being second-class citizens. I personally disagree, but I don’t think it’s a topic around which anyone need feel defensive. It will always be of huge benefit to be able to conform to the established norms (whether those established norms set by colonial powers, class expectations, gender expectations, etc), but I think it’s vital that people keep hold of who they are as well because no one story is more valid than another. I guess that’s what “code-switching” is essentially.
   
   (7)  How easy was it showing the growth and maturation of Nelson through the book?
   
   NI: I was working from an outline that I had developed before I started writing and so once I charted the decisive moments at each stage of his life, this became easier.
   
   NM: I think around middle age was the trickiest and I started to sneak a little greying in his hair to show that but I didn’t want him to read as being suddenly quite a lot older, especially since elderly-Nelson was narrating the book and that might get confusing towards the end. It was very helpful having my Art Director Katie pointing to when he needed to be older or younger in certain illustrations.
   
   (8)  Did you use any photos or source materials as background for characters and indeed for the village of Qunu and the Xhosa people?
   
   NI: I’m quite sure that Nicole did as I remember sending through some images that I thought might help.
   
   NM: Definitely! As many photos as I could find haha! In some instances, it was just hard to find examples that seemed to match up to time, place and description, but I was always looking up images before I started sketching anything.
   
   (9) The book could easily feel very serious but the illustrations play a wonderful role in infusing warmth and humour, how did the collaboration work?
   
   NI: Working with Nicole (via the series editor) was lovely. I’m not sure how many rounds of the illustrations she did before they got to me, but the editor would send through roughs and final versions at various stages and I could provide my feedback or comments, based on what I understood of the context and Nelson’s life. I felt very fortunate to have been able to contribute in some small way to Nicole’s really brilliant interpretation of the book.
   
   NM: When I first started the project I was initially a little nervous that it needed to be serious, almost a little distant in tone. So, even though I probably enjoy being playful and humorous in my work more often, when I submitted my first samples they were all pretty stiff and serious. The feedback was that the team wasn’t keen on that direction and actually wanted the lighter tone that I preferred. After a conversation with Katie to talk things over and her pointing to some things in my portfolio that she felt had a closer tone to the one they were going for, I was much clearer on (and happier with) the direction and sent over a sample that employed more of the humour you see in the book now. I was very relieved that we were actually on the same page. I feel it’s much more engaging than a more classically “educational” approach would be, without being disrespectful where a more sombre tone is required.

   
   
   (10)  What is next for you both?
   
   NI: I’m currently working on (writing, drafting, brainstorming) more middle grade novels than anyone should be at one time!
   
   NM: I’ve got a few books coming out this year including Walking for Waterby Susan Hughes which is based on the true story of a little boy in Malawi who realises the world is quite different for him and his twin sister and that is coming out 1 June. Then in autumn of this year the first book in Joel Ross’ funny Alley & Rex middle grade series is coming out. I’m illustrating Viviane Elbee’s I Want My Book Back about a dinosaur-obsessed kid who wants his library book about dinosaurs back, which is out in spring 2022. Then autumn of that year sees Groundhog Gets It Wrong hitting shelves.

   
   It’s a real joy for me to be able to work on so many great book projects and I’ve got a few exciting non-publishing projects popping up this year too. My Instagram is probably the best place to keep up with what I’m up to.

A big thank you to Nansubuga and Nicole for the interview and to David Fickling Books for the opportunity.